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Advocating for change?
Quote from jane.diamond on 13/08/2023, 6:14 pmGreat document, @jane4 !
EOLP can appear like a minefield and I can see the ennui and confusion descend on people’s faces sometimes when going through the elements which need to be completed. I agree that being clear on what the ‘rules’ are in one’s own area is helpful to manage this. I ran a number of weekend workshops where people would be enthused about doing the work but when Monday came round normal life resumed and they struggled to get the work done. I stopped offering this format and tried, for example, single sessions with small groups focusing on specific areas with homework and accountability. This was better but it’s still really hard for people! I wonder if groups are best used for general information sessions and working one-to-one or with couples is better to ACTUALLY get the work done. I think that’s more where I’m heading.
A suggestion regarding coffin choices. I’d list the options as follows: wood veneer, solid wood, willow, cardboard (plain or patterned), shroud, other.
Great document, @jane4 !
EOLP can appear like a minefield and I can see the ennui and confusion descend on people’s faces sometimes when going through the elements which need to be completed. I agree that being clear on what the ‘rules’ are in one’s own area is helpful to manage this. I ran a number of weekend workshops where people would be enthused about doing the work but when Monday came round normal life resumed and they struggled to get the work done. I stopped offering this format and tried, for example, single sessions with small groups focusing on specific areas with homework and accountability. This was better but it’s still really hard for people! I wonder if groups are best used for general information sessions and working one-to-one or with couples is better to ACTUALLY get the work done. I think that’s more where I’m heading.
A suggestion regarding coffin choices. I’d list the options as follows: wood veneer, solid wood, willow, cardboard (plain or patterned), shroud, other.
Quote from Jane O'Riordan on 13/08/2023, 7:20 pmThanks @emilyengel13
Thanks @emilyengel13
Quote from Jane O'Riordan on 13/08/2023, 9:12 pmThanks for the comments @jane-diamond I agree I think one to one is the way to go. I need to follow up too which is always a 'delicate dance' with people.
Thanks for the comments @jane-diamond I agree I think one to one is the way to go. I need to follow up too which is always a 'delicate dance' with people.
Quote from Harriet Radermacher on 13/08/2023, 11:45 pm@jane-diamond Your experience is very interesting and of no surprise to me - given I'm one of those people that has struggled with completing these forms. I get very excited and motivated during information/training sessions then find it challenging to follow through and finalise. I think the one-to-one follow up would work really well. I also think it just depends what kind of person you are. Some people find it quite straight forward, can garner the motivation, and can clearly articulate what they want and don't want. Others see a minefield, and too many ifs and buts. It all comes back to the value of person-centred approaches.
And yes, an interesting thread, but I find it curious that no-one has addressed my initial question about whether there is a role for doulas to change the status quo - perhaps you don't see a need for change?
@jane-diamond Your experience is very interesting and of no surprise to me - given I'm one of those people that has struggled with completing these forms. I get very excited and motivated during information/training sessions then find it challenging to follow through and finalise. I think the one-to-one follow up would work really well. I also think it just depends what kind of person you are. Some people find it quite straight forward, can garner the motivation, and can clearly articulate what they want and don't want. Others see a minefield, and too many ifs and buts. It all comes back to the value of person-centred approaches.
And yes, an interesting thread, but I find it curious that no-one has addressed my initial question about whether there is a role for doulas to change the status quo - perhaps you don't see a need for change?
Quote from Aly Dickinson on 14/08/2023, 8:27 am@jane4 @harriet-radermacher @emilyengel13
@harriet-radermacher in relation to your initial question not being addressed I think that you and Jane have got to the nub of the issue and that it is not about the forms but rather having the conversation and then supporting the person to put this in writing and this is absolutely best done one on one. That's how Doulas albeit in a small way can change the status quo as unfortunately there are very few professionals who can or do work in this way but Doulas competent in AP are uniquely equipped to do this. How I work (and probably supported one on one 75 plus people over the last 5 years which is only a drop in the ocean in the scheme of things )
- share with the person an AP (my own if appropriate or the samples that used to be provided on the EoLDUK workshops
- go through the elements of the plan (not with checklists or forms) but by conversation
- then support the person to do their own plan - quite often if they are not au fait with IT or typing or writing things up then will do a draft and bat backwards and forwards until it reflects what they want
On Community Workshops I provide information. sample plans and template documents then always offer one on one follow up to translate the information into a written plan but on average only 25% of people take up the offer of one on one and i have no idea what the rest do. I take Jane's point that people are all fired up during and immediately after the workshop and then everything goes on to the back burner.
In relation to the Advance Planning Workshops that EoLDUK run there used to be the offer to follow up with the attendees to review and give feedback on the two Advance Plans it was suggested they do (one for self and the other for a friend/family member). I don't know if this still exists but again about 30% of people used to take the offer up. I am not sure why the take up was at the lower end but found that those that were really interested would put in the heavy lifting to do the draft plans and get the feedback. May be worth asking Emma Clare Director of End of Life Doula emmaclare@eold-doula.uk UK if this feedback after the training still is on offer?
So very sorry there is so much 'I' in all of this post and that it goes on a bit but just wanted to share experience. I wondered if there is a place for a small forum of us who want to promote this work to meet up? It would not be to bemoan how challenging it is but to to discuss what and what is not feasible and to try and come up with some practical actions as to what we could do/want to do as Doulas to change the status quo to which you refer?
After posting the above saw a Maya Angelou quote which made me think of what may be partly being said by Harriet and Jane and Emily? Hope it doesn't come across as cheesy!
The desire to reach the stars is ambitious. The desire to reach hearts is wise and most possible
@jane4 @harriet-radermacher @emilyengel13
@harriet-radermacher in relation to your initial question not being addressed I think that you and Jane have got to the nub of the issue and that it is not about the forms but rather having the conversation and then supporting the person to put this in writing and this is absolutely best done one on one. That's how Doulas albeit in a small way can change the status quo as unfortunately there are very few professionals who can or do work in this way but Doulas competent in AP are uniquely equipped to do this. How I work (and probably supported one on one 75 plus people over the last 5 years which is only a drop in the ocean in the scheme of things )
- share with the person an AP (my own if appropriate or the samples that used to be provided on the EoLDUK workshops
- go through the elements of the plan (not with checklists or forms) but by conversation
- then support the person to do their own plan - quite often if they are not au fait with IT or typing or writing things up then will do a draft and bat backwards and forwards until it reflects what they want
On Community Workshops I provide information. sample plans and template documents then always offer one on one follow up to translate the information into a written plan but on average only 25% of people take up the offer of one on one and i have no idea what the rest do. I take Jane's point that people are all fired up during and immediately after the workshop and then everything goes on to the back burner.
In relation to the Advance Planning Workshops that EoLDUK run there used to be the offer to follow up with the attendees to review and give feedback on the two Advance Plans it was suggested they do (one for self and the other for a friend/family member). I don't know if this still exists but again about 30% of people used to take the offer up. I am not sure why the take up was at the lower end but found that those that were really interested would put in the heavy lifting to do the draft plans and get the feedback. May be worth asking Emma Clare Director of End of Life Doula emmaclare@eold-doula.uk UK if this feedback after the training still is on offer?
So very sorry there is so much 'I' in all of this post and that it goes on a bit but just wanted to share experience. I wondered if there is a place for a small forum of us who want to promote this work to meet up? It would not be to bemoan how challenging it is but to to discuss what and what is not feasible and to try and come up with some practical actions as to what we could do/want to do as Doulas to change the status quo to which you refer?
After posting the above saw a Maya Angelou quote which made me think of what may be partly being said by Harriet and Jane and Emily? Hope it doesn't come across as cheesy!
The desire to reach the stars is ambitious. The desire to reach hearts is wise and most possible